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KEN CHITWOOD

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“The person who knows only one religion, knows none”
— Max Müller

PHOTO courtesy of the author.

Ten Years of 'Being Both': An Interview with Susan Katz Miller

December 7, 2023

Religious plurality is a fact of life. Every day, we encounter and interact with an increasing number of people of different faith traditions.

With Jewish neighbors, Hindu co-workers, and non-religious friends – and amidst other changes in the landscape of marriages and relationships – it is unsurprising that in the United States, interfaith marriages have been on the rise. In fact, over the past five decades, the share of couples in same-faith marriages has dropped substantially, with an increasing number opting for starting interfaith families, according to the 2022 American National Family Life Survey.

Ten years ago, Susan Katz Miller wrote a book with this demographic, and their families, in mind. Being Both introduced another world often judged, and nudged to the margins, by monochromatic religious insiders who feared or looked down upon interfaith unions. It suggested another way forward to a generation of people increasingly aware of religious plurality and living it out within their own families. Katz Miller did not shy away from the challenges interfaith family communities face, whether navigating institutional obstacles to their unions or when deciding how to include coming of age ceremonies for their children or navigate the interreligious calendar.

A decade after its first publication, I had the opportunity to ask Katz Miller some follow-up questions about the ongoing challenges interfaith families face, the evolving religious and interfaith marriage landscape, and how our very notion of what “religions” are and how we define religious communities and cultures might be challenged by the dynamics she’s witnessed in interfaith families over the years. The following is an edited version of our conversation.

After a decade, what do you feel is Being Both’s ongoing message and relevance?

PHOTO courtesy of the author.

This book is not only still relevant but perhaps more relevant than ever. So, I'm grateful that Beacon Press still has it in print in hardcover, paperback, and eBook. For the 10th anniversary, we made an audiobook and I have just come out of the studio, where I spent three days recording and narrating.

I also wrote a new author's note that puts it in perspective as a snapshot in time, ten years ago, when I think people were just becoming aware of the possibility of being an interfaith family that would educate children in both religions, and what that would look like and what the challenges and benefits are.

Now, a decade later, with demographic changes and increasing support from religious institutions, I think it's become easier to be an interfaith family; easier at being and doing both. I think as a society, we've become more educated about these issues. And there have been some important shifts as a result.

What are the challenges that interfaith families continue to face, or that have perhaps evolved, over the last ten years?

The challenges have always been more external than internal. What I mean is that you often feel more challenged by extended family who don't accept your relationship or religious institutions that don't support you. And I think that those are still the main challenges. But I do think extended family members are less likely now than they were to object to or mourn your marriage to someone of another faith. Just because it's become more common, and people are used to the idea. And maybe they've developed some confidence in seeing a generation of kids grow up and not be confused or screwed up by their interfaith family.

At the same time, institutions are becoming more welcoming and inclusive, sometimes even being led by people in interfaith families. This changes the landscape. When you have clergy who are in interfaith marriages, when you have boards that include people in those categories, then that changes the policies that might be made, and makes it more likely that these families are going to be included and welcomed. For example, since the book first came out, the Reconstructionist Rabbinical College decided to accept rabbinical students who are in interfaith relationships and to ordain them. Just this year, Hebrew College in the Boston area did the same. These changes have a huge effect, I think, on the entire Jewish and interfaith family landscape.

Religious institutions like these have come to realize that interfaith families who want to claim more than one religion and educate their children in more than one religion, is part of our reality, and that it's here to stay. That was a very threatening idea to a lot of institutions a decade ago. What I'm seeing now is leaders, institutions, and communities willing to be open to the idea that there could be benefits to the interfaith family pathway.

What are some of the internal challenges that interfaith families face?

The internal challenges are the same, I think: figuring out how, and whether, to honor different aspects of your family’s religions, how, or whether, to celebrate certain holidays, and things like that. But, you know, these are the challenges all couples face. They ask, “Are we going to do Christmas your way or Christmas my way? Are going to do your kind of Hanukkah, of my kind of Hanukkah?” It doesn't really matter whether they're two religions or one religion in a family, there's still going to be differences that must be negotiated. Every couple needs to address questions like: did these religious traditions mean to me in my childhood? What were my feelings around them? What do they mean now? Has that changed? And do you want to bring that practice into your family going forward? Or not? And why?

How has the general decline in religious adherence impacted the interfaith family landscape?

That is one of the key statistics that I did update in the book. Increasingly, in my years of speaking about this book, and working with couples, I've seen a rise in the numbers of couples who are Christian and secular, Jewish and atheist. And I believe Christians with secular, or non-religious, partners, is the largest, fastest growing segment of the interfaith families worldwide. I often refer such couples to Dale McGowan’s In Faith and In Doubt, which is specifically about marriage between people who are Christian and people who are “nones.”

What might readers have to learn from your book about this thing we call “religion?”

Another trend I noticed in the past ten years is the increasing number of couples and families who have more than two religions in their heritage; some that have three or more! You’re going to have interfaith kids dating a Muslim; for example, a Jewish-Christian interfaith kid dating a Hindu. That’s three heritages in that coupledom. This makes the interfaith family even more complex – and more exciting. It is kind of refreshing as it challenges some of the binaries that we have let define American religion (e.g., the Judeo-Christian binary).

This also fits in with broader conversations about multiple religious practice, or multiple religious participation. This idea was first explored by Catholic theologians who labelled it “multiple religious belonging,” but belonging can be a complicated thing, with gatekeepers in institutions often deciding who is in and who is out. I am increasingly talking about and thinking about interfaith families who teach their children two or more religions, as part of this global reality of multiple religious practice, which goes back to the beginnings of religion. Anytime you have two spiritual or religious cultures side-by-side, you're going to have people marrying across those boundaries. So interfaith families go back to the beginning of these things we call “culture” and “religion,” influenced by forces like colonization, immigration, and the forced movement of people. Interfaith families have helped shape the traditions we believe are bounded. They were a product of contact and interfaith relationships, within and beyond marriage.

Additional Reading and Resources

• Being Both: Embracing Two Religions in One Interfaith Family, by Susan Katz Miller

• “Leaps of Faiths,” a documentary by David Kovacs and Steve Ordower on interfaith families

• “Nous tous,” a film by Pierre Pirard

In #MissedInReligion, Interreligious Dialogue, Religion and Culture Tags Susan Katz Miller, Being Both, Interfaith families, Interfaith marriage, Interreligious engagement, Multi faith families, Multifaith marriage
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Photo: Susan Katz Miller

What's it like to 'be both?' An interview with interfaith family pioneer, researcher, Susan Katz Miller

August 26, 2014

Every day, Americans interact with an increasing number of people from different faiths. With Mormon neighbors, Hindu co-workers, and non-religious friends, it is unsurprising to see a growing number of interfaith marriages in the United States. Indeed, Naomi Schaeffer Riley reported that just less than half (42%) of marriages in the U.S. are interfaith ones. Regardless of geographic location, sex, educational status, or income level interfaith marriages are on the rise. 

Susan Katz Miller's book Being Both: Embracing Two Religions in One Interfaith Family -- a book that famed author, and interfaith pioneer, Reza Aslan called, "a gorgeous and inspiring testament to the power of love...." -- was written with this growing demographic, and their families, in mind. 

*Pick up the NEW paperback copy of Being Both on pre-order (Oct. 21)

It also speaks to those who are in mono-religious, or non-religious, relationships. For those who  married within their own faith group Being Both introduces another world often judged, and nudged to the margins, by monochromatic religious insiders who look down upon interfaith unions. Odds are, however, that even if you married someone from your own religion, you are related to, or know, someone from an interfaith background and you may be interested in the dynamics at work or wondering how you might best bless your loved ones in an appropriate, and knowledgable, way. Miller's book is an easy opportunity to apperceive the blessings, and challenges, presented to interfaith families. For religious leaders, such as pastors, imams, rabbis, etc. it challenges them to consider a "pastoral theology" for interfaith families. For academics, it presents areas for further research. While Miller conducted her own survey, she suggests the field is ripe for more in-depth quantitative and qualitative study. 

Miller speaks from her own interfaith experience and thus maintains a positive tone throughout. The interfaith maven covers a wide breadth of concerns from interfaith family communities to coming of age ceremonies for interfaith children and their eventual religious outlook during adulthood. The book focuses specifically on Jewish-Christian relationships and is limited in scope when it comes to other mixed marriages with people from Muslim, Buddhist, Sikh, non-religious, or other religious backgrounds. However, as Miller notes, she eagerly awaits the publication of other titles that explore the many varieties of interfaith families.

I had the opportunity to ask Miller some follow-up questions about religious fluidity, furthering the interfaith family conversation, and the future of interfaith communities in the U.S. Her answers are worth a long look: 

*For more on religion & culture, follow Ken on Twitter

 

You wrote, “[C]hildren, whether or not they are interfaith children, go out into this world and make their own religious choices.” That freaks some people out, why don't you think people should be scared?

Photo: Susan Katz Miller

Americans are switching denominations and religions at a significant rate, and leaving behind formal affiliation to become “spiritual but not religious,” according to Pew Research. That is the reality of our current flexible and fluid religious landscape, in a country with freedom of religious affiliation. If you want your children to have a particular religious identity, your best strategy is to raise them with that singular identity. So if both parents agree that they want to raise the child in that religion, fine, go for it. But if you have two religions represented in the family, or one religion and one secular worldview, my point is that you cannot simply ignore the second worldview. This child grows up knowing and loving people with two different sets of practices, two belief systems. I believe that this gives them a certain proclivity for universalism, bridge-building, and peacemaking, which I see as an advantage in life, and good for the world. Our complex world is now interconnected by media and internet, shrinking rapidly in terms of our ability to interact in real time. Children who span the traditional cultural, ethnic, racial and religious boundaries have a head start in becoming the cultural translators and diplomats who can help us to make this complex world a peaceful one. 

What’s been the reception of the book?  

This has been a year filled with exhilarating conversations. I have spoken to rooms packed with parents, with college students, with interfaith dialogue groups, and to a room filled with almost 50 rabbis. I’m in dialogue with ministers and priests, Muslims and Hindus. I would love to visit every seminary in America, because clergy need to be prepared for pastoral counseling of the growing segment of interfaith families. And college chaplains, in particular, are looking for tools to help support students with complex religious identities, or in complex religious relationships. I can help provide those tools. Most of all, I am heartened by the fact that Jewish communities are beginning to reconsider the strategy of ignoring the 25% of intermarried Jewish parents raising children “partly Jewish and partly something else.” These are not families rejecting Judaism: they are families who want to stay connected. For instance, this year the venerable Jewish Daily Forward invited me to be on a roster of experts for their new interfaith families advice column, alongside more conservative viewpoints. 

How can someone who is not involved in an interfaith relationship better interact with interfaith communities and create an environment that does not marginalize them?

I would say, try to see that human beings, all of us, have complex religious identities. None of us fit easily into single-label boxes. Even if you strongly identify as, say, Presbyterian, you may or may not agree on various religious beliefs or practices with your neighbor in the pew. Each of us constructs our own religious and spiritual (or humanist) identities out of our family backgrounds, our encounters with the natural world, with literature and religious texts, with other people. People from interfaith families are no different in this regard. We simple start out with a broader range of family influences.

What is the first step for families who are interfaith who want to be more pro-active?

A couple getting married starts from a shared platform of love and respect, and ideally they have had deep conversations and have a shared position on the religious and spiritual life of their family going forward. Unfortunately, often it is the extended family, who may have less intimate experience with people from other religions, who put on pressure about the wedding, about the education and identity of future children, etc. Everyone in this situation needs to work hard to continue to encounter each other out of a place of love, rather than fear and defensiveness. Ideally, rather than a retreat to avoiding each other, spend time with extended family, sharing holiday celebrations and religious rituals without pressuring anyone to convert or to choose a particular pathway for the children.

What are the greatest promises, and challenges, facing interfaith families at the present moment? 

As interfaith families, we represent the extraordinary religious freedom and ability to bridge social boundaries in America today. This is both a promise and a challenge. My own experience, as part of a happy three-generation family, is tremendously positive. The challenge is mainly in explaining my happiness to people, mainly baby boomers and older people, who tell me “you can’t do that.” I find that young people, Millennials and in particular the newer “Generation Z,” often come from complex family backgrounds, and have a more intuitive understanding of religious complexity. 

Some may counter, “isn’t saying someone is “interfaith” like starting a new religion all its own valuing pluralism and tolerance, worshipping some polytheistic amalgamation of gods? Isn’t saying something is ‘both’ just some trumped up form of ‘buffet style religion?’” Respond.

Interfaith is not a religion: there is no specific interfaith theology, or required set of practices. Interfaith is a state of being that results from marriage into, or birth into, an extended interfaith family. The communities that have grown up to support interfaith families provide a way to stay connected to both religions, to teach children the history and texts of both, and to allow them the opportunity to experience religious rituals, when they may or may not be welcomed or feel comfortable in more traditional houses of worship. These communities also provide a place where families can experience their interfaith status as positive, rather than feeling marginalized.

Your book focuses predominately on Jewish-Christian interfaith families. You say you look forward to the books to be written from other interfaith combinations, but you wrote, “each religious recombination creates unique challenges and unique synergies.” Talk a little more about that.

I did interview interfaith couples including Muslim, Hindu and Buddhist practices, so in that chapter of my book you get a glimpse of some of the ways these interfaith families work. What stays the same is the essential role of respect, educating each other and sharing in ritual together, and working to maintain positive relationships with extended family. I can recommend three books that have been published already. The Book of Mormon Girl by Joanna Brooks on a Mormon and Jewish family, Saffron Cross by J. Dana Trent on a Hindu and Christian family, and a new book, In Faith and In Doubt by Dale McGowan, on Christian and secular humanist families. 

What’s the next step in the field of researching interfaith families and interfaith communities?

My book was the first to survey and interview interfaith children raised with intentional interfaith educations. I think the results are tantalizing, and largely reassuring in terms of refuting the idea that interfaith children raised with “both” will be confused. But I am really hoping that academics now follow up with larger and longer studies on the spiritual and religious journeys of these children. 

For many readers, this is their first experience with the concept of an interfaith community. Break down an interfaith community’s core vision, purpose in three points:

An interfaith families community:

What does a Jewish-Christian family do in December -- when both Christmas and Hanukkah are celebrated? The answer can nurture children towards greater religious appreciation later in life. 

  1. Provides a “third space” in which neither spouse is a “guest,” and couples can deepen their knowledge of and respect for both religions.
  2. Provides an interfaith education for interfaith children, so that they can study the histories, texts, beliefs and practices of both family religions in a program staffed with a Jewish and a Christian teacher in each classroom.
  3. Provides a space for interfaith families to celebrate holidays together, talk about their experiences, and nurture children who feel positive about being part of an interfaith family.

You talk about the promise of religious "interfaith identity and practice" for individuals, the pitfalls for religious institutions. Expand on that. 

Many American religious institutions are struggling to maintain membership and affiliation, in an era when people are choosing to be spiritual but not religious, or choosing to be neither. Ideally, families raising children with intentional interfaith education would be able to affiliate with two religious institutions, for instance a synagogue and a church, in addition to an interfaith families community, rather than feeling that they are welcome in none. It is really up to these religious institutions to decide whether or not they are willing to accept children who are being educated about both family religions. When these families are welcomed, the couple benefits, the children benefit, and the institution benefits both in terms of getting bodies into the pews, and in terms of bringing the reality of our interfaith 21st century world into the conversation.

*For more on religion & culture, follow Ken on Twitter

 

In Religion, Religion and Culture Tags Interfaith, Interfaith families, Being Both, Susan Katz Miller, Ken Chitwood, Eboo Patel, Reza Aslan
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